| Author | Message | ||
| gobbstopper1946 |
This has probably been discussed before but being from out of state, I was wondering what the opinions were of residence turkey hunters. Thanks GS... | ||
| Freddy McGuire (Vaturkey)
|
Hey Gobb... I am opposed to rifles for use during Spring turkey season. The safety aspect is the biggest reason. Plus, it takes the challenge away from calling that bird into 40 yards or less. I know people that just use a rifle/shotgun over and under. If they can call them in and shoot them with the shotgun they will, but if not, they will shoot him with the rifle at long range. Just my opinion... | ||
| Gobbler Getter
|
I agree with Freddy. Using a rifle takes away the challenge of "callin em in close" and it can damage the bird severly. Safety is a big issue too. That's my 2 cents. Kevin Lee | ||
| HODY |
I like a shotgun only Spring because of Safety and sportsmanship of callin em in close. | ||
| TScottW99
|
I agree with Freddy and the guys. A rifle is too dangerous in the spring woods with hunters using decoys of anything from a hen to a gobbler and sitting behind them in full camo. Not to mention taking the "chase" out of the hunt. My two cents... | ||
| gobbstopper1946 |
Thanks Gentlemen, I also like the shotgun for turkey hunting. Here in Tn. its shotgun only with #4 shot or smaller, during any turkey season. I feel a lot safer moving around in the turkey woods under these restrictions. Not only is it very dangerous, I think it would cause the number of turkeys harvested to rise, not to mention increasing the opportunity for road hunters. GS... | ||
| Ryan Tucker
|
I am also a shotgun person, I just don't really see the point in shooting one with a rifle. | ||
| Dale |
I've only witnessed one turkey being shot with a rifle. It happened during deer season. The hunter shot a hen that had flown into a nearby tree at roosting time with a 7mm back when turkey season was in the same time as rifle season for deer. He hit the hen right in the breast. There was little left of the bird. He seemed proud. I felt ashamed to be along with him on the hunt. Shotgun only for me guys. | ||
| maytom |
Shotgun user here as well!! | ||
| Cliff |
I answered this same question at the Realtree Forum, it's shotgun only for me, and you could see the fist flying at me. I tried to finish it with each to his own, but some guys wouldn't quit, bragging about their head shots at 200 plus yards. To me it's turkey killing not turkey hunting. | ||
| Wingman |
Shotgun, blackpowder shotgun or bow and arrow for me. I will agree that it takes quite a marksman to shoot a turkey at 200 yards plus but ask the shooter where his bullet is going to end up next time he pulls the trigger. ( It ain't staying in the birds head for sure!!!!!!!!) | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm sure this will get me flamed... I'm a rifle hunter who hunts on public land. I don't like calling for turkey. As with deer hunting, I prefer to move slowly through the woods in a slow stalk fashion. I ran into plenty of birds last year by hunting in this fashion. Everytime I've sat and called, I've always become engaged in a calling contest with another hunter. Sure it's pretty easy to tell after a few calls (their volume is usually so loud), but it necessitates that I move on. On the public land that I have to hunt, I've heard very little loud gobbler vocalization. The only vocalization that I've heard has been low volume feeding noises, clucks and a few yelps, and then only during the fall when flocks are moving from feeding area to feeding area. These vocalizations never really travel more than 200yds or so. The areas I hunt are mountainous terrain, and the ranges are kept short, so rifle is no more dangerous than using shotgun. As far as ethics goes, I really don't see how using a call and blasting the bird with a 5" wide pattern using 2oz of shot is superior to making a clean shot in the head or lower neck with a rifle. I'm not big on ethics arguments with other hunters. Often as not the "ethical" guys use all manner of calls,scents, artificial blinds etc. I am all for any legal methods and equipment, and frown on those who seek to outlaw any method or equipment that they don't feel is "sporting". | ||
| coach |
I see your point anonymous, But I am for the saftey aspect of no rfles. I hunt the public land with you and you scare me. I have had a couple of birds shot while coming to my calling. To be honest both times it scared me to death and angered me because I had no idea that they were there. But I am sure (like you ) they knew it was another hunter calling. they chose to sneak between me and the bird. Both times they got the Bird and ran wouldn't stop to talk. Heck they had to pass my truck at the parking area to get in) I hunt the mountains with you, while working a bird on one ridge, (This one I am not sure they knew I was there), and they started shooting from the other ridge at the bird. I hit the deck. I waited to see if the guy would follow-up his shot and I never saw him/her. He must assumed a total miss and went on to stalk another bird. What would have happened if he hit me or one of my children. He would have not known (or even cared). I did not see the bird yet, only heard him fly. if you want to admit or not, in the spring its a safety issue. So legal, ethicall, or not, Being hit from a shotgun at 200 yards vrs a 270 the outcomes are quite different. Also if you still like to ambush one, use a shotgun and just wait until he gets a little closer. Just chimming in, Coach | ||
| GN |
The issue realy is about safety. I think a lot of spring turkey hunters view the tradition of calling in the bird to close range as being what the hunt is really about...andthat exercise, and the sense of accomplishment it brings, is perhaps more important to them than killing a bird. I may be the only one here that feels that way, but I sense a lot of others feel that same way about it. Frankly, the interst in spring hunting has mushroomed to he point that safety is a very very real issue, as I doubt I am in hte woods many days a spring that anothe hunter is not in sight or sound of me. I have looked down the barrel of another's shotgun barrel in the spring, luckily he did not pullthe trigger; if he had been further away and unable to see the target as clearly, I wonder if I would have been as lucky. If everybody was in a tree stand with a rifle , then rifles might be safer..but when you mix up ground moving hunters and rifles and perhaps people who are too anxious for a shot, things get too dicey on the safety front. I do not mean to be personaly offensive Mr. Nonymous , but I do ntot htink the wooods are big enough anymore for rifles in the spring. | ||
| TScottW99
|
G.N. & Coach.. I feel the same as you two. I hate to "pick" on anyother form of hunting due to the Anti's but.... a rifle in the spring woods while turkey hunting is dangerous. If your more than 60 yards away ( and a lot of people closer than that) you cannot see me in my full camo sitting against the tree. Even if you do shoot the turkey that is 20-40 yards in front of me.. the turkey is not going to stop the . 22-250, .223, .243 (Mr. Anonymous please insert your rifle of choice here please) and guess where that bullet is going? I know I have walked ontop of a hunter once while spring gobbler hunting.. he was sitting against an old dead tree in full Trebark camo, call, gun and all. I almost had an accident when I stepped by him and the tree waved. We were within five yards of each other. I just didn't see him due to not paying attention. If you do set your scope on a turkey you will get tunnel vision i.e. your scope or open sights and not see me or another hunter. My hunting buddy last year pointed out that he lost me in his perphinal (sp?) vision while I was calling my tom in, he was 20 yards to my left. my two cents..... | ||
| Turkey576 |
If a turkey is shot with a rifle it ussally passes threw the bird. This causes less tramma and it can fly away to die. Tracking a bleeding buck is hard try finding a flying turkey in heavy cover. It takes far more skill and woodsmanship to call in and kill a turkey. If someone needs to use a rifle they can by law, but it does pose a safety hazard to the other hunters in the area. I have never ran into a person using a rifle, but if I did and it was on public land I would leave the area. In the law books you can use no shot greater than #2. I think a .243 etc. is a lot more dangerous than that. Sorry just letting my feelings flow. | ||
| HODY |
Actually in most cases it is #4 or smaller. Being honest I really agree with the rest of the postings so far. It is about the safety, and the art of not just calling but the woodsmanship. I agree with you on one respect Anonymous that it takes woodsmanship to sneak up on a bird, but if you can sneak up on one as close as we call one in, then just use a shotgun. To me its all about the sport of caling one in, and not the kill and that is my bottom line. | ||
| turkeypicker |
Wow!! You guys can use a rifle in the spring turkey woods?! Not a good idea from my perspective. Agree with other shotgun posters | ||
| Limbhanger |
every year i write va. game and fish about the use of rifles for turkey hunting.... the other day they wrote me back and said they are not the ones who change the laws......did i miss something????...if they don't make the laws for hunting who does?? | ||
| turkeypicker |
Limbhanger: That's true. The VA legislature sets your laws. Natural resource agencies can't write laws! Natural Resource agencies write regulations under a statutory authority given to them by the legislature. Southern states tend to be legislative states, meaning the legislatures are often even reluctant to give the Natural Resource agencies "full" regulatory authority. Some states have been given full regulatory authority...BUT if the allowance of rifles is a statute (law), they can't overturn a statute with a regulation. So you can, and often do, have politicians setting game laws and natural resource agencies running damage control with a lessor regulatory authority. Confusing I know. As hunters we need to tell our legislators to leave the game laws to the professionals, but unfortunately change will be slow a coming in the "good ol' boy South." In my home state, the DNR must propose a regulation package, and then it must go to the legislature for approval...talk about a mess. And if "Bubba made it to the statehouse" wants to propose laws to manage wildlife, he can do so totally independent of the DNR. I'm guessing this is what has happened with the rifles in VA. It's probably a statute (law) and the state resource agency is powerless to change it. Write your legislators! | ||
| TScottW99
|
in case you missed the other thread i posted the other day.... here's an article about the rifle ban being shot down... http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story125772.html | ||
| Rayferd T. |
Safety should be the main issue hunting anything.What is the difference in shooting a gobbler with a 22 mag and shooting a deer with a 300 ultra mag. True a turkey won't stop a rifle bullet but neither will a deer shot clean through the ribs. I hunt turkey with both a 22 mag. and a 870 mag. ethical or not 20 yds or 200 in the end you are killing the bird. Responsible huters Know what is behind their target. If you are in an area you suspect others are close,then hunt elsewhere, it is all a matter of opinion,and this is only mine but I don't think they should ban rifles in gobbler season, if anything maybe put a restiction on the caliber. Good luck to all be safe and shootem in the head!!! | ||
| TScottW99
|
big differnce in the .300 ultra mag & the .22 mag though.... when your using your .300 ultra mag i'm sitting against the tree with blaze orange on. also i don't use deer decoys and if i did i sure wouldn't be sitting 20 yards behind them.... i kinda like living too much. Scott | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi, Checking back after my rather controversial post. Regarding the safety of rifle hunting: I rifle hunt the exact same way during deer season, squirrel season and rabbit season. (I don't find using a shotgun to be very sporting). I use some variation of slow stalk. I can get to within 60yds or so of turkeys, but the times that I have been able to get within shotgun range have been much rarer (perhaps 4 turkeys were in range during deer season stalks). There is absolutely no difference in my hunting style during turkey season, other than the lower density of hunters present in the spring. So how is my hunting with a rifle in spring more dangerous than my hunting method at any other time? I've already mentioned how the maximum range that my bullet can travel is significantly reduced by the mountainous terrain. As for killing ability of a rifle, apparently there aren't any varmint hunters here who have seen the performance of fast hollow points on small game. A good low neck shot can work wonders for putting game down swiftly and humanely. In addition, when I am rifle hunting, I'm shooting with a scope that significantly aids in proper identification of my target. I'd love to see some stats on how many shotgun hunters have shot exposed hands,feet or heads because they took a 60yd shot at a "spot of blue or red". And decoys! Don't even get me started on how dangerous those are. That boggles my mind! Perhaps I'll stick to the smokepole in deference to you guys here at VATurkey  Happy Hunting! | ||
| Turkey576 |
Picture this: A young hunter full of adrenilin ready to take a big turkey. He hears a calling or walking "turkey" comming to his spot. He gets ready and shoots at that patch of black at about 60 to 75 yards. He runs to check out his prize and it is another hunter. It is far more sporting to call in a turkey and make him do what you want him to do than to try and stalk one. The sensation of the gobbling and spitting and drumming nothing can beat it. Jon | ||
| Anonymous |
Dear Anonymous, I understand your point, however, I feel that the majority of people on this forum feel that Spring turkey season is about calling in a bird. We call for the hunt not so much the kill. There is no reason to start an argument here, but that is just the way the opinions conclude among the hunters on this board. It is OK not to agree, but we do not wish to start posts on this board that create controversy. We are about the sport that WE know, and you are free to have your SPORT as well. | ||
| knight_va
|
Well guys, I have stayed out of this but I feel I must say something.....YES Hunting turkeys with a rifle is dangerous....because of the very way we hunt spring gobblers makes it so........But its a SAFTEY thing pure & simple......IF the person handling the rifle is practicing safe hunting & firearms handling then he is no more dangerous than a hunter with a shotgun....I agree with almost all points made here in this topic......However guns do not hurt or kill people...People Kill People....its the plain & simple... I carry only a shotgun in the spring woods as do most here..... I however know of 2 old timers u carry 22mag/20ga year round.....they consider the o/u the perfect turkey gun.....to be perfectly honest.. in the fall season... I will have the exact same gun in my hand........a good freind of mine in my younger days..his Father was shot & killed in spring season by a teenager carring a 243...shot him in the back while he worked a bird.......told the invetigators me wathed Toots (the father)for almost 30 min before he shot him..........this teenager was slapped on the wrist & can now hunt once again in the woods with u & I......folks or rare ocassion real accidents with firarms do happen & its very very sad......BUT 90% of all firearms related deaths are the fault of one or all parties involved.......If the guy is a safe hunter & understands the limits & abitiles of his weapon of choice I dont care if he carrys a bozooka.... he can hunt with me..........if hes unsafe & reckless..........he could have a gravle shhoter & i wouldnt want him in the safe co as i was in........Remeber folks as the season fast approuches...we share the woods with others.....they may or may not know we are there with them always..........BE CAREFUL........HUNT SAFE............At last but not least remember the one thing about gun/hunting safety my father told I will NEVER forget.........ONCE U PULL THE TRIGGER U CAN NEVER BRING THAT BULLET/SHOT BACK!!.....forgive me for being this long... God bless & be careful other there.......those at home want u to return when the day is done! Max | ||
| Anonymous |
Fellas, the key here is being a resposible safe hunter. Know what is behind your target, just like deer hunting. I'm not siding with anyone, i use a shotgun and a .223, just depends on what kinda mood i'm in. As far as changing laws on what gun to carry, u better check yourself. Just be lucky we are allowed to carry guns at all. Have a good one, and dont kill em all! | ||
| Piedmont Gobbler |
I don't see a problem with it. There are reports of hunters killed every year by other turkey hunters using SHOTGUNS! The point is, either you hunt safely and intelligently (shotgun, rife, bow, slingshot, rock, stick) or you don't. Same rules apply no matter what weapon you have in your hands. They dont have a different hunter safety course for shotguns versus rifles do they? Just my humble opinion. MIKE | ||
| daddyjan |
I have never killed a turkey with anything but modern archery tackle , so i probally should keep my mouth shut on this one...but...belive it should be restricted as far as caliber if they have got to have it at all.Not all rifle turkey hunters are like Mister Anonymous if they are in your hunting territory be carfull !!JMF SOUTHAMPTON CTY VA | ||
| Anonymous |
Mr Anonymous checking in: I used my trusty deer rifle to take my annual fall turkey on public land a few weekends back. For a little variety, I actually called the bird in-to a measured 12yds. Shot was to the base of the neck. Bird dropped like a stone-windpipe and arteries completely severed. There was a solid wall of earth behind the bird, though that probably wasn't needed with the 125gr soft point doing around 3100fps. Bird is bagged and in the freezer awaiting Thanksgiving. Rifles are safe if you show the same care to background and target as that given during deer or any other rifle legal season. | ||
| Diablo |
OK - I can't sit back any longer...buckle your seat belts - cause here it comes.... RIFLES HAVE NO PLACE IN THE SPRING WOODS - PERIOD. I had the dubious distinction of being the President of the WV Chapter of the NWTF in mid-late 1990-s when this very issue came up...specifically we had proposed to the WV Legislature a regulation change for a shotguns only spring gobbler season (archery and muzzleloader shotgun were also included. We had gone to the point of having the NRA issue a formal statement from their executive offices confirming "...the NRA will not oppose a shotguns only spring gobbler season in WV..." We also had the written and very visible support of the NWTF as well as 78% of the WV state chapter members. Armed with that support we headed off to public hearings to lobby the WV DNR game commissioners and presented these and many other facts: 1-avg distance of hunting related fatalities (shotguns less than 40yards; rifles greater than 75yards); 2-80% of gobbler hunting shooting related accidents are caused by shotguns and of those 80%, less than 5% resulted in death; 3-18% of gobbler hunting shooting related accidents are caused by rifles and of those 18%, greater than 82% resulted in death; 4-WV averaged killing around 7-10 spring gobbler hunters with a rifle each spring; 5-fewer that 4 states across the country permit rifles in spring gobbler season - when surveyed as to why the rifle was not permitted - >85% responded with "to enhance Safety". Moral of our story...eliminate the use of the rifle for spring gobbler season to save lives - READ IMPROVE SAFETY. The issue is not about gun restriction nor gun control because every state's game laws are already full of such restrictions - why else would it be illegal to hunt waterfowl with a rifle or squirrels with a .270? The issue is not about limiting the safe and ethical hunter's rights - that's not why ANY rule for ANY purpose is implemented in the first place. Rules and regulations are instituted to modify deviant behavior...the tails of the bell curve if you will. Think about it...a prudent person knows to not drive fast through a neighborhood full of kids at play - but there are still laws that saw 25mph or less is the rule and there are signs out there to support it and police officers to enforce it. So a prudent hunter toting a rifle in the spring is not who this issue relates to, just as the 25mph rule isn't directed at sane, prudent individuals. These rules are instituted to "HOPEFULLY" make things (roads in neighborhoods or spring turkey woods) just a LITTLE BIT safer to save people's lives. So what was the outcome in WV you ask? In a word - unbelievable! We had a slam dunk going into the final public hearing until your friendly neighborhood NRA faxed a letter to WV's DNR comm. during the public hearing stating that "...the NRA now opposes a shotguns only spring gobbler season in WV..." In short - politics won out - some politicians got cold feet standing up for what they new was right out of fear of not being re-elected. WV spring gobbler season still to this day permits the use of rifles (one of only 2 or 3 states perimtting rifles in the spring). In the end, what was really discouraging to me personally was how the vocal minority (those in favor of rifles) were heard over the majority. So heed every one of these posts under this topic very closely - don't take anything for granted - recognize that some things are worth fighting for...and unfortunately never forget that you CANNOT LEGISLATE ETHICS, NOR COMMON SENSE. Thanks Freddy for permitting this forum to air opinions and facts. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find a ladder to climb down off this soap box - I had forgotten how high this particular one was for me. JD | ||
| GN |
alright JD....could not have said it better myself, even if I had all the facts, as you do. Hard to argue with facts. Surely somebody in Va will wake up on this soon. | ||
| Freddy McGuire (Vaturkey)
|
Well said Diablo! I love it when people back up their argument with facts... sorry to hear about your battle in WV, I did not know about that. It would have helped us change the laws here. | ||
| Diablo |
Freddy, If you get a chance talk with Gary about it. I know he and Curtis exchanged a lot of data in support of our effort. I'm not so sure it would've help VA's efforts...remember what I said - "you cannot legislate common sense". ;-) JD | ||
| Anonymous |
Ok. Those are good statistics. Now, lets see some comparative statistics on the dangers of tree stands,heart attacks, and rifle hunting for deer. I want to see what the numbers are on deaths during other game seasons in which centerfire rifles are legal. I would wager that you will find that rifle hunting for deer is just as dangerous as rifle hunting for turkey, even when disparity in participant numbers is factored in. What are you going to do next, legislate away the right to use a rifle while deer hunting because it's unsafe? Maybe Ralph Nader could step in? By the way, check out the following link on NY state's finding on hunting fatalities: http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044112.htm Note that deer hunting also has a high fatality rate (81% of all 2 party NY hunting fatalities). Rifles are dangerous in the woods, no matter what the season. Should we outlaw them for all hunting? 99% of the NY turkey hunting accidents were found to be related to lack of hunter orange. Seems like mandatory hunter orange will solve your problem if you want to be as safe as possible. If you really want to get rid of something dangerous, why not get rid of decoys? Now those are an accident waiting to happen....Chasing rifle turkey hunters is a looking for a strawman,IMHO. | ||
| Diablo |
As I said, Common sense cannot be legislated. I would welcome a ban on turkey decoys for the reasons you stated and several more...Alabama has that part figured out. Mandatory blaze orange? - let's talk about it - hat and vest while moving through the woods? - sure (talk to Pennsylvania)... several safety minded spring gobbler hunters I know (and supported by survey data) already do it without being told to do so by regulations....why? It's safer. Let's stay focused on the issue shall we? No one is talking about banning rifles for deer hunting -deer hunting with a rifle is, by its very nature, a long range activity. Blaze orange is needed to help identify hunters at these long ranges - (check the data to see the average distance deer are harvested nationwide with a rifle). Spring gobbler hunting is by its very nature a short range game - the game is played wearing camo. It is presumed that hunters would identify their targets at these closer ranges more easily without the need for blaze orange. Rifles are simply not needed at these distances. It would have been a welcomed event in WV IF someone would've talked about the issues to come to some reasonable compromise - perhaps even over a span of 1 to 2 seasons. But that did not happen - the veil of "the 2nd Ammendment rights are being attacked" was used to avoid the real issues at hand....issues you and I seem to have already identified. Here's an idea - how about mandatory Spring Gobbler Hunter safety programs as a pre-requisite to attain your gobbler permits? While sitting on the NWTF's National Turkey Hunting Safety Taskforce - we discussed this issue at length. Final analysis...spring gobbler hunting safety programs had little POLITICAL support at the state level even after acknowledging the value of such a safety program. Now what's wrong with that picture? JD |