| Author | Message | ||
| Diablo |
Some of you might already know that I am a data collection nerd...have kept journals and collected data on spring gobblers and spring gobbler hunting dating back to 1982. One interesting occurrence my data has illuminated is the average time of day I am killing gobblers. For example - when I hunted mainly in WV 1982 - 1997, almost half (48%) of the gobblers I killed were killed after 9:30am. The balance being taken before 9:30am. Now after hunting 5 years mainly in SC, I've noticed a drastic shift...in that 62% of the gobblers I've killed are BEFORE 9:30am (the balance being taken after 9:30am). I've thought a little about the probable causes for this shift: ---hunting the same area more often = known roosting sites better known = getting closer to the roost more often = earlier kills. ---SC turkeys in my area do not like to play the "mid-morning-gobble-your-head-off-to-find-another-hen" game. ---preferred habitat more concentrated due to high occurrence of clear cuts resulting in turkey densities being more concentrated in these preferred areas. ---killing gobblers earlier and more frequently pulls you out of the woods more often so you are not out there hunting the mid morning hours. So with that said - here's a 2 part question: PART 1 - What other causes do you see coming into play affecting the shift in time of kill? PART 2 - What tactics do you try on gobblers that do not like to play the mid morning, mid-day game? I've tried everything from hunting a known hang-out for up to 3-4 hours to trolling with a friend and excellent caller through the area....they simply do not like to play - at least on these few tracts. Interested to hear your input on this one. JD | ||
| Rhino |
Last two I took in spring seasons were one each - 7:00AM and 10:30. The late one was almost an oops when he turned loose a gobble 40 yds over a bank as I was stumble bumbling along through the woods. Talk about finding a tree quick! Two clucks and a purr and here he came - your "mid-morning gobble to find another hen". Last one I was in on calling for a friend was another 7:00 AM bird. Interesting data you have. I can't add anything for this year - still trying to get one close enough to even think about pulling the trigger. Dad killed one early this spring just after daylight ~7:00. My final count (3) earlies and (1) late. BB | ||
| GN
|
Part 1: Sc lowland , flatter country birds , as a rule, may be kin to the other flatland birds we discussed before the season.After I posted a note that said I did not think flatland birds gobbled as much as mountain birds, some people in the flatlands(read: not big mountains) sort of got offended by that statement as they thought I was downgrading their turkeys. I just said then, and will say now that birds out of severe mountian terrain(in my experience) do not gobble nearly as much through the middle of the day-nor respond to shock gobble tactics nearly as well- as do mountain birds. PART 2: I use the usual array of shock calls..crows, pileated, hawk, (sometimes gobble tube in a asafe place)often real quick together...sort of a king on the mountain series of loudcalls from each and if a gobbler hears all of that he almost HAS to answer i n the mountains. This is oarticularly true of the realy steep terrain where the top of hte ridge or mountain may only be 100 feet or less of "level"(hahha) ground before dropping steeply off each side..this kind of terrain makes a stalking hunter very difficult to tell ffrom a walking turkey in the right conditions and enables very close approaches sometimes. After freddy killed a nice bird with me one time he turnedto me and said that turkey thought we were his hens walking to him...we had shock-located a bird and set-up in a nano-second and made minimal calls and he walked straight in in mid-morning.A lot of it has to do with WHERE you make thecalls rather than what call you use I think...if you get over the side of he hollow, say 50-100 fett down from the crest of the ridge, and make your calls down in each hollow off a main ridge, you can often get birds to answer that have not answered from making a shock call off the very top of the ridge..requires a little more walking and often pays off big time ...caution tho: make sure you make the call on top the mountqain first , before going off the side, as he could be "right-there" under you at evry hollow junction. I have taken probably half my birds after 9:30 , over the years in the mountains, 20 minutes or less after I found them with a shock gobble routine (and many were less than five minutes). If you find the right ridgelines and work it right, you can be very effective after mid-morining....not everyday, but on many days, and it works in all of southern appalachia from what I have seen. | ||
| Diablo |
GN - understood - Regards Part 1 - I happen to agree completely, and have some limited data to support it, but why do you think this is the case? Regards Part 2 - Flatter country means the gobblers get to use their eyes a whole lot more too. I like the walking hen-footed game a lot too - brings back great mountain memories. I guess the moral of the story is the same old thing....if they don't want to play - there's not a whole lot you can do about it. JD | ||
| WVBOY |
I have taken both my birds this year Late in the morning or early afternoon.. But I have also called in two more at 7:50 one morning that I should have taken one of.. and another at 8:30 that wouldn't present a shot, and called in four Jakes just after flydown about 6:15 one morning had them at 10 steps and let them walk.. The VA Bird was @ 10:45 .. he was in Flatter ground.. The WV Bird was @ 12:50 he was on a field edge below a real steep ridge in the mountains.. I called him back up into the woods on the ridge.. | ||
| gn
|
I think the endless expanses of woods and uninterrupted mountains ranges in some of our southern mountains makes for roaming birds (particulary the wonderful 2 yr old variety). Look at a mpa spometimes and note that many of the mountians that start/end in Tenn run all the way to maryland or penn with only a handful lof roadcrossings on them...ptretty incredible wildlife highways. Nottha tthe turks go that far but I know somw of the mountain birds do travel several miles a day --I have followed s ome that far.. I do not know enough to say anything about lowland SC birds and why they act the way they do(or NC or Va tidewater for that matter). Ido think birds around big open fields usetheir eyes more than their ersto locate henstho..gobbles can just be totally unaudble in those 40 acres fields ..to hens and hunters I guess. | ||
| Bass_hunter |
To me and you this all may seam interesting to think about. But you know if your wives hear you talking like this there're going to have you committed somewhere.LOL | ||
| Diablo |
GN - yep the low audible gobbles is something I've really noticed this year...saw it first hand many times. The most incredible was when Freddy and I were hunting Zeus in the SC lowcountry this year in mid-March....Zeus was 75 yards away - Freddy and I saw him gobble with our own eyes and could hardly hear him. JD | ||
| GN |
BH- My wife , God bless her, has put up with this for 34 years, so it would not surprise her. | ||
| Diablo |
BH - this conversation can't be all that different from a bunch of bass fisherman talking about the speed of retrieve or bait color to figure out the "pattern" that works. I can't speak for the other VA turkey board posters, but I've been married 17 years to the same woman...she knows how crazy I am about this sport - and I've already been committed....isn't that why marriage is called an "institution". JD | ||
| Limbhanger |
First, here were my times this year... VA - 8:10am WV - 9am PA - 6am WV - 11:20am Part 1...I think that there has been an unbelievable increase in the number of hens over the past 5-10 years, and as a result many gobblers are never alone during legal shooting time within states where you have to quit at noon or 1pm. And if they are alone it is late in the morning until that happens. I don't have any recorded data to back this up but I would say over the past 10 years I have killed 60%+ of my birds after 9am, with many after 10am. Like GN I hunt the mountains more than anything, although I do hunt some flat/rolling terrain in PA. Mountain birds tend to be vocal at anytime when they are in the mood. Part 2...my favorite tactic when things are quiet is to slip through an area that I know well and visually locate birds with my binoculars. This can be done with or without fields...I find "many" longbeards on secluded points and benches in mountain country this way. The trick obviously is to see them before they see you. Once you've located a gobbler in this manner you can watch him to determine where he might be going and/or what his mood might be and adjust you hunting/calling strategy accordingly. I've been doing this for years and it has netted a number of silent birds for me. The key is to know you area intimately and move at a snail's pace. And just to be clear this has nothing to do with stalking turkeys...you locate them by moving through the area then kill them through hunting/calling strategies. Great discussion thread. -Eric | ||
| Bird Dog |
I agree with every observation you'all have made, i hunt piedmont and big mountain (as high as 4000)and have seen most of those situations one thing to remember is a typical hunt in flatland you hunt hard to cover 1000 acres(on foot) in the mtn a good hunt ,you listen in 10,000 or more with so much better acoustics wooking both sides of ridges. | ||
| Diablo |
Limbhanger, Excellent point on the increased number of hens - must agree there...probably even more of the reason the gobblers down here in my areas don't "fire-up" in the afternoon or evening much at all. And by the way....having hunted with you a time or two - you really cracked me up when you said "moving at a snail's pace"...hmmmmm I think that's like saying I move at light speed. But hey that's just my opinion....  JD | ||
| Freddy McGuire (Vaturkey)
|
My data would be kind of wacky because a lot of my VA hunts are before work deals. That being said, I killed most of my birds this year before/around 8:00 AM (VA, MT, TN, TX) with 2 other birds being killed around 7:00 PM (TN & TX). I think all the reasons listed above are valid... the number of turkeys that gobble in the middle morning hours for me are few and far bewtween the last several years. | ||
| VA Hen |
Diablo - I don't think the "institution" part of marriage has the same meaning that you are trying to give it here!?!? And I really don't think that any wife who understands her husbands "disappearance" into the woods WAY before first light and then sometimes not making it out of the woods until well after dark would even think twice about the conversation being "weird" on this board... hehehe Just my 2 cents...  | ||
| NCLimbhanger |
Diablo, I second what freddy said, busy work schedule kept me out of the woods beyond 8;30 most days, had to walk off and leave many a bird that just needed a little waiting out if ya know what I mean. Agree with all other reasons as well...as far as my neck of the woods, birds were henned up through-out the season, plenty of juvinile`s (hens) running around... kept gobbling at a minimum. Downside, saw very FEW Jakes, 6 total in all areas I hunt...HMMmmm As far as mid morning strategies...you need to listen to what Limbhanger said, he`s on to something there, after all, he taught you all you know anyway !! :-) right ????? Chris | ||
| Limbhanger |
Chris, I really like you!! Anybody that consistently picks on "Light Speed Harry" is alright in my book! -Eric | ||
| NCLimbhanger |
Well thank you Mr. Baker, thank you very much !! Consistency is required to keep "Big D" in check ya know ! As far as that lightning speed... I witnessed it first hand last fall as we rushed to get back in our blind as some Geese were approaching.....well, maybe it was just the sound of thunder !!  It was very impressive nonetheless !! Chris | ||
| Diablo |
It's nice to be loved. JD | ||
| hennedup
|
i dont have a whole lot to add to this post this being my second spring other than the two gobblers that i was able to take both came around 7am but this spring i have hunted everyday except 4 days this spring and the rest of the time only skipped out of the woods early one time. but i would have to say that i have had four gobblers in my sights only to botch it up some how later in the morning after 10am.i guess what i am trying to say is in the morning the birds seem to take there time coming to me so they always seem to get distracted but later in the morning they come right in i guess its got to be those darn hens. just my 2 cents worth |