|Freddy McGuire (Vaturkey)
|Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 2:09 pm: |
|Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 5:26 pm: |
Freddy thanks , this really drove home a point for me.Several years ago we had a nice ( 180 class buck ) in our neighborhood and some of the guys had filmed it . Come hunting season no one saw or heard of it.Everyone said well he must have gotten killed by a car or something.About a month ago I went back to work for the company that I retired from to do a contract job and was working some guys from this area and we were talking about nice bucks and out of the wild blue he told me that he had killed a huge buck and invited me over to see it.I got to asking about where he had got it and come to find out he had killed it with a cross bow before the season came in.Boy I was sick.The bad part of it one of the locals that had filmed it put him on to it.I don't have anything good to say about any pouched.Hope they catch them all.It also gives the antis some more fuel.Good Luck and Good Hunting !!
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 5:31 pm: |
GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!.... He deserves to reap the fruits of his deceptions!
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 5:32 pm: |
Darren Wood has hunted hard all his life and killed some big deer.If half of them are legal he should still be considered a great hunter which he no doubt is.I have a lot more respect for him than i do for the weekend stump setters you see on saturday mornings.I would rather see a deer killed like that by someone who is dedicated than some weekend stump setter who is just "geting out of the house".So if you want to kill big deer hunt hard and dont worry about other people are doing.You people who go to Texas and sit in front of a feeder and "select a trophy" ought to try to hold a light and shoot,I dont do it but it is no easyer.Some things we do that are legal are no more ethical.Lets think about this before we decide to hang somebody.Most of us are probably no better.
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 5:56 pm: |
RH the main difference between baiting deer in TX and spotting deer in VA is one is legal the other is not!...being not only an avid hunter but also in the hunting industry I have seen Darren's many heads hanging on display at various shows where we both were a part of. I have listened to his lectures and advice he has given others. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt even while many said he was doing illegal things...It is a shame he as proven many people right in a bad way. To do what he did on a personal level is bad enough. To do it in trying to create a business and reputation as deer hunting icon is even worse. Maybe he has taken every other deer in his life by legal means. None of that matters now. He has lost his credibility. I understand from good sources he signed a confession. I know Darren and will tell him this to his face when I see him. To do what he did for the reasons he did it is a disgrace to honest hunters and a bigger disgrace to the Industry. He has embarrassed fellow hunters and given the Outdoor industry a bad name.... Darren always spoke about hunting ethics. Maybe he should have listened more to himself. His lack of respect for all of us and to the deer is obvious for all to see.
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 7:06 pm: |
The phrase was made on here some time back that "no one should judge someone else's trophy", to paraphrase. Change that to "no one should judge someone else's legal trophy". The trophy in this case is illegal. Reap judgement. Not only for this deer, but ample reason has been given to judge previous trophies. A good reputation is easy to earn, and once lost, hard to regain. The irony is that a reputation as an ethical hunter has been lost by an apparent willingness to do anything to preserve a reputation as a great, skillfull hunter. It's the same trap laid throughout social institutions now days. Great rewards abound for the best and most successful. So much that many sacrifice their character to achieve them. Hunters, for the sake of the future of the sport, must check in their ego at the woodline. As far as "stumpsitters". Call me to come admire the spike of a hard working father who has secured his household and has been able to run out for a Saturday hunt, don't call me to come look at the next poached B&C buck. A dead animal is just a dead animal until the human element is added, then when done legally and ethically it becomes a trophy, to be admired proudly, if by no one else than the hunter when he stands alone with it. I know enough about most on this board to know they can stand alone with their harvests and admire them proudly, without the praise of others, true sportsmen indeed. The comment "If half of them are legal he should be considered a great hunter..." is without a doubt the most disturbing thing I have ever read on this board. I apologize if my delivery has been abrasive, but not for the principle. Anyone here knows that I'm not one to respond strongly and directly to another's comments, but I know this incident will not float in this community.
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 7:17 pm: |
i dont mean to tick you off max but the way i see it the industry is the problem,i watch the videos,see the tv shows on outdoor channel,been to siminars,they all talk about one thing,moster bucks,mature whitetails,deer management.ive hunted for 20 some years,and while dont know how many deer ive killed i do know its been alot,alot of scrub bucks a few nice ones and a pile of does.i eat everything i kill and even gave a few away to needy families.nobody knows my name,im not famous,nor am i on a pro staff for some company and i can almost garentee you my dad and my uncle have killed more deer than bill jordan and jackie bushman put together,but deer huntin shouldnt be about numbers or how big that buck is,any deer taken during fair chase,and with respect is a good deer in my book.it just seems that if you dont kill monster bucks year after year these days you aint worth your weight in boots,and i do blame the industry for this.
we all would love to put our crosshairs on a 160 class or better deer,no doubt,but by dusk if he aint showed himself and a spike does...he's toast.thats meat on the table
now i dont know this guy warren,as a matter of fact ive never even heard of him before,what he did was WRONG plain and simple and he is the only one to blame for his actions,but all i can say is,peer presure.
sorry to upset you max,if i do,im not meaning to flame you or provoke you,these are just my opinions,my 2 cents.
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:43 pm: |
You did not offend me and anyway whatsoever. So please donít worry about that. I agree with you in the fact that the ďTrophyĒ image that is seen on the TV and other places can and has changed things in the realm of hunting, and fishing for that matter. I have expressed my views about what constitutes a trophy so long as it legal is strictly an individual decision that should never be judged by fellow sportsmen. We (all of us) need to stick together or the Antiís will eventually kill the laws protecting our rights to hunt. When I referred to the Industry in the above post I mean the law abiding honest people who do what we do not for the money or glory or recognition, but because it is our passion. The vast majority of the little guys in the industry are there because we love hunting, and helping people. It sure isnít for the money; it all comes back to a love of the sport. The little folks are the back bone that supports the shows. The big boys are paid to come there so you can see them. We love to talk to the people, see the success pics hear the stories and spend a few minutes with the young folks. Poachers give the Industry and hunters in general a bad name. There are others and will be more. Again I will never judge anyone for killing a legal deer. I would love to kill a 150 class deer myself but I am perfectly happy with my couple 100Ēers and many smaller ones. They eat fine!!..GRINSÖ..No worries Chuck!...LOL
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 9:11 pm: |
max you are absolutley right about the anti's,and about the little guy being the backbone of the sport.after all its our money that makes the big companies go round
|Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:30 pm: |
O.K. He was caught. Was what he done wrong? YES, it was against the game laws. No one is perfect on this earth, lets hope he learned his lesson. Will he ever hunt again and become a noted authority on deer hunting? Maybe
The reason I say this is he was doing this to get the trophy's( Big Deer ) and the notariaty. He pushed the limits to stay on top.
Now with that said, lets talk about Nascar.
Do some drivers win alot? Yes . Do they do it for the money? Maybe at first, but most likely for the fame, attention, trophy's, exitement, or they just like to race.
Do some of these drivers ever bend the rules of Nascar,cheat, sneak, hide, do things that are unlawfull ( to Nascar) to get the win ( trophy )? You bet they do. Are some of these cheating drivers still famous, Have a big fan base? Yes
These are both sports, with lots of simularities, If you look at it in this way. People soon forget about the cheating Nascar driver. It becomes old news.
Lets hope for the best. Woods may learn his lesson, hunt again, kill big deer (Legally ) Love the sport for the right reasons. Lets all hope that something good comes of this. Maybe some day he can give deer hunting talks on his experiance of this event, and how he got caught up in the fame. Maybe help others see the light that are out there doing these unlawfull methods.
Now, I am not putting down Nascar by no means, jUST USEING THEM to get what I was wanting to say out. Trying to get something positive out of this.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 7:12 am: |
Some very ineresting points fellas. Now I will agree that one may feel pressured when they do not kill, but I certainly hope I would never have to do something like that to feel satisfied. Deep down you would have to look at that deer and know that you killed it illegally, and that it was not fair to the animal, and you are not being fair to yourself our your peers. I agree that we are not perfect, but the problem is that once your image or integrity are scourned, it is hard to EVER reclaim it. That is a fact. The industry has pressured some folks into thinking hunting is all about killing wallhangers. I too eat what I kill and dont think a thing about killing a doe or a non-mountable buck. We must remember though not to let this situation split the hunters as we have enough enemies out there. Lets all stay on the same page and abide by the regs and stick together. I want to hunt the rest of my life and afford my children the same opportunity. Think about things and put them in perspective before you do something like this and give the antis ammunition. Be safe, and good luck with the rest of the season.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 8:25 am: |
Let us be judged by our actions, not our words. In my humble opinion, there is a great difference between the ethical hunter who makes an honest mistake and the unethical hunter who deliberately breaks the law. I think we would all agree that spotlighting a deer at night is not an ethical means of killing a trophy deer. It's a conscious decision made by an individual. Again, just my humble opinion, but when you are hunting to maintain a reputation, you've forgotten why you're hunting.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 9:02 am: |
I've been on this board for some time but I've never seen such bulls*** float. RH, it really ticks me off to see a post such as yours. The guy is a poacher, plain and simple. A label he'll wear the rest of his life. How would anyone ever respect him, as far as hunting goes, anymore. He screwed up. But to hear you have more respect for him than "stump setters on a Sat. morning" burns me up. A lot of hard working fathers, husbands, brothers, sisters, wives daughters, kids, etc. don't get to hunt EXCEPT ON SATURDAYS. You'd better go and take a good long hard look in the mirror and try to determine why you hunt. Obviously, something is missing-ethics, morals, sportsmanship. Sorry to go on like this but I know too many people who play the game right-limited time or not.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 9:25 am: |
I'd put Jackie Bushman and Bill Jordon in the stump sitters category. They don't scout, they just go to a ranch with a guide and film and shoot. They are not hunters, they're in the businees of filming big bucks getting shot. I'm proud to be a weekend stump sitter cause I WORK for a living.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 9:39 am: |
You deer hunters have complicated lives. :>)
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
1st off I would like to 2nd JP'S post, could not have said it better myself.
2nd ...Think about this....This guy claims to kill most of his big bucks off public land. This was one of his claims to fame.
If he shot this buck off public land, he stole a 150 class buck from EVERYONE who hunts legaly and ethically in my opinon.
EVEN THE "STUMP HUNTERS".
People who believe this guy is a great hunter probably believes Bill Clinton did nothing wrong in the oval office!
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
What i meant by stumpsitters is lazy people who drag thier rifles outof a corner opening day and go plop down beside a tree without doing any scouting or making any effort whatsoever.I realize thier are people who only have time on saturdays and if i did not live so close to good hunting i would be one of those people.Mainly what i wanted to say is while he done wrong it does not change the fact that he is a good hunter and that he has put alot of time and effort into it.As far as "THE INDUSTRY" goes when you turn on the outdoor channel and see"HUNTERS"setting in a box blind in Texas shooting 130" management deer because thier browtines are too short that is what gives"YOUR INDUSTRY" a bad name.I did not mean to upset anyone as i am sure you do work hard and care about the sport or you would not be on here discussing this.I hope everyone kills a large one or a pile of does the next couple of days.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 1:06 pm: |
RH, I just read your first post, saying you would rather is a deer killed by someone shining a light in the deers eye than to see someone who can only hunt on a Saturday kill one. Think about about that statement .How crazy does that sound. I'm lucky enough to be able to hunt right often and I enjoy every moment in the woods I can get. Those "lazy people" you referred to were people like my dad. A man who worked sometimes 6o hours week just to make ends meat. A man who when he was lucky enough to get a Saturday off would go out and sit down by a tree. If he was lucky enough he would get a deer. But I can say as long as I knew him, he never shined a light in a deers eyes. So to me that made him one of the best hunter I ever knew. Wood is just another poacher!!! NOT A HUNTER.
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 2:44 pm: |
These are some great posts on this subject. I must admit that Daren Wood duped me. I went to one of his seminars several years ago and came away impressed, however after reading some recent articles about deer he killed, I was starting to wonder and question some of his claims. He was killing too many, too big and too easy. A good hunter can have a good season or kill a decent buck most years, but 5, 6, or more every year with many being huge is just not realistic. Now we know the truth. He is a poacher. Even if he killed some or most of those big deer legally, I would imagine he may have killed others by spotlight. How could one come to another conclusion. Could it have went like this: He hunted hard for three days, but the big one didn't come along so he went out that night hoping to keep on his big buck schedule. You see he also hunts in WV and Kentucky and kills big bucks there. I'm sure the pressure was starting to mount so off he goes. He goes to a familiar location, probably farmland where a big buck would be more visible. He already knows this deer because he did his homework. I remember from his seminar that he mentioned riding around late at night looking for big bucks in the late summer. He spots the monster and takes the shot. The wheelbarrel could have been used to easily and quitely remove the deer from the spot where he shot it and put in his truck. All he needed was a piece of lumber to manauver the wheel barrel into the bed of the truck. The tarp was there to cover up the deer. Is this possible? To me it doesn't sound like a chance encounterit seems more like a planned event. Anyway, he is history as far as being a great hunter in my eyes. As mentioned in the article, deer hunters do not tolerate this sort of sin. He committed the gold standard for cheating. I predict he will not get another chance at fame. I'm sure his sponsors will distance themselves from him. Others poachers have met the same fate. I am struggling that anyone would defend this person and his poaching.
|Freddy McGuire (Vaturkey)
|Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 2:56 pm: |
I was going to post a reply to this thread but everyone else pretty much summed it up for me. Good responses...
|Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 8:09 am: |
At Age 49, and still fairly new to Deer and Turkey hunting (3 years), I am saddened at the example this man has set. I look up to those more experienced hunters than myself. I include many of you in that category! I like gleaning knowledge from their teachings, and their experiences. I donít know this man, havenít heard of this man, but I know how disappointed I would be if someone I looked up to as a hunter were caught in a situation like this. It casts a pawl over hunters in general and the industry at large. It might even be a source of disillusionment for young hunters with the sport in general. That would be a shame, a crime in and of itself, because there are a great number of good, decent, honest, ethical hunters out here with a lot of great knowledge to share with less experienced hunters.
Lets talk about the ďAntiísĒ. There are the ďAnti GunnersĒ, the ďAnti HuntersĒ, the ďAnti Fir crowdĒ just to name a few. There are people who give millions of dollars to these causes. In Washington, dollars talk, and Senatorís and Representatives listen to money! At some point in time, I fear that the ďAntiísĒ money will outstrip the hunterís rights and desires to continue to be able to hunt, and for that matter our very right to keep and bear arms in general! I have had several friends, who know that I hunt, mention the shooting incident in Charles City a few weeks ago. This was a case of poor hunting practice at the worst extreme! In this case fortunately for all involved, no one died, and the hunter causing the injury didnít flee the scene. If people with no interest in hunting bring up subjects like this one, imagine the concern of those same people when a hunter is shot by an unknown and is left to, and eventually dies! WE CANíT AFFORD THIS TYPE OF PUBLICITY!
We as hunters, need to be doing what we do as cleanly, and as above board as possible. We need to instill hunting ethics and values in those we bring along with us and after us so no one can even question whether we should be allowed to keep perusing this sport that we love so much. 2 cents from someone who hasnít been around hunting long, but who has been around a while. Thanks all of you who come on this board that do it right, and are so willing to share with others your knowledge and skills, I have learned greatly from your examples!
|Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:26 am: |
I'd like to add 2 things to what GN has already posted...
1 - Hunting is NOT a competition sport.
2 - As hunters we ALL need to find HUMILITY!
|Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:44 am: |
Read the post, you guys are great!. I don't know the guy, but most of the commens here are on the money.
|Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:40 am: |
Every time I get ready to say something, Diablo says it for me.
Wrong is wrong. End of discussion.
|Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 3:03 pm: |
Cheating in NASCAR is just that, cheating. Spotlighting to kill a deer is a criminal act. Last time I looked you couldn't end up with a criminal record, loss of weapon, loss of vehicle and loss of hunting license for cheating at the Bristol Raceway.
He sits with Noel Feather in my book, for those that remember him.
A criminal being better then a "stump sitter"? I'd take a two day a year hunter over a criminal any day myself.
|Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 3:58 pm: |
I do indeed remember the noel feather incident...we're showing our age i guess.
|Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 7:50 am: |
Guess there is life after poaching. Was curious and went looking. Found a couple of Noel Feather videos on the web for $21.99 apiece
|Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 4:28 pm: |
The way I understand Nascar rules, if it does not exactly state something is illegal than it is a grey area and can be tested and not cheating. Besides any driver that wants to win in Nascar just has to go out and put the other drivers into the wall. (Easily done). He better watch out after the race and in the next race because everyone will be taking him out. Now as to the Game laws is states spotlighting is illegal! Period! The guy is a poacher! I choose to hunt the way I do, and if I do not bag a turkey or deer than that's fine with me. I hunt! NOT POACH!
|Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
Well think most everyone hit the nail on the head.
Nascar,hunting and everything thing else is setup with a series of laws and rules. It is a shame that a few feel that only apply too others. So if you decide too not abide by them you face the law.
I live in Indiana and this is the first year I took my 11 year old son out. After 3 years of buddy hunting without a gun with me. Also going too hunter saftey, reading the rules and regulations with him over and over again. Basically teaching all the morals and ethics of our wonderful sport. We also fish quite well too under the same guidelines.
So All I can add too this is work within the laws and regulations so we can pass it down too our future generations. Or let it go away and loose what we love to do by our actions, giving the Anti's the fire power they need to stop it all together. THE CHIOCE IS SIMPLE
OH! by the way my son dropped a nice 6 pt on his first hunt I passed up (I settle with a little doe.) but there is always muzzleloader and yes we eat all we take.
|Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 3:38 pm: |
Guess some of us like livin on the edge a lil more than others....and i dont believe anyone on here who honestly says he or she hasnt done something illegal in there lives when it comes to hunting or fishing....and if u do think again!